Difference of Opinion
It is often said that "opinions are like assholes because everybody has one. Sometimes they are offensive to other people. Sometimes people don't like them. And sometimes they stink like hell. But sometimes they can bring people closer together. Sometimes an argument can be settled by people leaving them alone. And sometimes both people can have the similar one, but still have drastic differences. And in each instance here, I am speaking of both opinions and assholes. And I have learned time and time again that you can't share them with everybody.
Monday night I had a conversation with a fellow blogger and new friend, Mashaun. He was telling me about his weekend spent in Tallahassee, Florida for FAMU's homecoming. He told me about how much fun he had and I was quite happy for him since I spent my weekend working. One thing that he mentioned started a whole new conversation. He told me about the male sorority members that he saw stepping and chanting at a party that he attended. This led to a little spilling of opinions on the part of both of us. I told Mashaun that I did not agree with this because it was disrepectful to the actual sororities. He feels that it's all right for these guys to step and chant in the tradition of the sororities because the men that do it feel that they are not welcomed to join traditional fraternities. I say that is bullshit. We agreed to disagree and I was fine with that because I had said my piece.
That is until the next day when I read his post "In the News …mind yo business ... are you ready?" I must say that i was a bit taken aback and a little hurt when he said "And last but not least I have to say this … mind yo business!There were two incidents that have taken place in the past 24 hours that made me want to say that." The conversation that we had was the second in that "mind your business series." I will let you read his post to understand what he had to say. But after he mentioned the conversation that we had, he followed up with a piece from another bloggers post about feminine men and how "they defiantly fight for their free space in a society and culture that tries to deny them their very existence." The order in which he posted this (right after the part about our conversation) and the nature of our conversation led me to think that he felt that I was hating on and dissing the feminine brothas. That's what pissed me off about it. I wasn't knocking anybody in our conversation. In fact, I never mentioned the word feminine. I just said that I didn't like what the fellas did because it was disrespectful.
So I spoke with Mashaun about the fact that that was what I got out of his post. He assured me that he meant no harm and that the extra part about the feminine brothas was not inspired by our conversation. I think that he said this just to shut-me up. But anyone who know me well knows that I don't give up until I feel that you truly understand my point-of-view. Not agree with it, but to understand it.
I will also explain here why I don't like men pretending to be in sororities. There are three reason.
1. As I stated earlier, it is disrespectful. The guys that participate in these steps and chants have not gone through what the real members of these sororitied did. They did not pay dues, attend workshops, go through the pledge process, or anything else associated with joining a sorority. And it they did, it was not sanctioned by the true sororities. Therefore for, they are not members and their participation in sorority traditions are disrespectful.
2. Definition of Sorority- A chiefly social organization of women students at a college or university, usually designated by Greek letters. An association or a society of women. A social club for female undergraduates. I don't think that I really need to explain this, but I will. Men cannot be members of a sorority. There is no question about it. I also feel that these men help to perpetuate the notion that all gay men want to be women. Why emulate the sororities and not the fraternities? Nevermind the fact that some of these men are not even in college.
3. To go along with #1, these men use chants, steps, histories, handshakes, and other sorority traditions that do not belong to them because they are not members. These traditions are (I think they still are) considered sacred to the organizations and should not be used by non-members. Even if some members of the sorority accept these guys as equals, they still are not members.
4. It's thought that the fellas "join" the sororities because they cannot join one a fraternity because of anti-gay bias. I know plenty of gay men that are members of fraternities. And in addition, there are fraternities for Black and Gay men. One such example is Delta Phi Upsilon. This fraternity was formed in 1985 at Florida State University "by five college men whose particular purpose was to cultivate and encourage high scholastic and ethical standards among gay men of color." Why pretend to be in a sorority when you can be a part of an organization formed especially for you?
These are my reasons. Let me also say that I am not hating on anyone. I just don't agree with the practices of these "sorority members." Mashaun says "I respect his opinion over the issue that it being disrespectful and wrong, however I cannot co-sign on that. Why? Well because they have the right to do and be who they are as long as it is not hurting anyone else. From what I can tell, they just want to be able to be who they are without anyone bothering them, unfortunately by them being who they are they bring a lot more attention to themselves. So what?" The fact here is that this is not them being WHO they are, but WHAT they are trying to be. These men would still be WHO they are even if they did not attempt to emulate the ladies in the sororities. But WHAT they will never be is a member of a sorority.
Now, most of you may read his blog entry and not get out of it what I got out of it. That's fine, but now that I have said what I have to say, I can let it go.
Monday night I had a conversation with a fellow blogger and new friend, Mashaun. He was telling me about his weekend spent in Tallahassee, Florida for FAMU's homecoming. He told me about how much fun he had and I was quite happy for him since I spent my weekend working. One thing that he mentioned started a whole new conversation. He told me about the male sorority members that he saw stepping and chanting at a party that he attended. This led to a little spilling of opinions on the part of both of us. I told Mashaun that I did not agree with this because it was disrepectful to the actual sororities. He feels that it's all right for these guys to step and chant in the tradition of the sororities because the men that do it feel that they are not welcomed to join traditional fraternities. I say that is bullshit. We agreed to disagree and I was fine with that because I had said my piece.
That is until the next day when I read his post "In the News …mind yo business ... are you ready?" I must say that i was a bit taken aback and a little hurt when he said "And last but not least I have to say this … mind yo business!There were two incidents that have taken place in the past 24 hours that made me want to say that." The conversation that we had was the second in that "mind your business series." I will let you read his post to understand what he had to say. But after he mentioned the conversation that we had, he followed up with a piece from another bloggers post about feminine men and how "they defiantly fight for their free space in a society and culture that tries to deny them their very existence." The order in which he posted this (right after the part about our conversation) and the nature of our conversation led me to think that he felt that I was hating on and dissing the feminine brothas. That's what pissed me off about it. I wasn't knocking anybody in our conversation. In fact, I never mentioned the word feminine. I just said that I didn't like what the fellas did because it was disrespectful.
So I spoke with Mashaun about the fact that that was what I got out of his post. He assured me that he meant no harm and that the extra part about the feminine brothas was not inspired by our conversation. I think that he said this just to shut-me up. But anyone who know me well knows that I don't give up until I feel that you truly understand my point-of-view. Not agree with it, but to understand it.
I will also explain here why I don't like men pretending to be in sororities. There are three reason.
1. As I stated earlier, it is disrespectful. The guys that participate in these steps and chants have not gone through what the real members of these sororitied did. They did not pay dues, attend workshops, go through the pledge process, or anything else associated with joining a sorority. And it they did, it was not sanctioned by the true sororities. Therefore for, they are not members and their participation in sorority traditions are disrespectful.
2. Definition of Sorority- A chiefly social organization of women students at a college or university, usually designated by Greek letters. An association or a society of women. A social club for female undergraduates. I don't think that I really need to explain this, but I will. Men cannot be members of a sorority. There is no question about it. I also feel that these men help to perpetuate the notion that all gay men want to be women. Why emulate the sororities and not the fraternities? Nevermind the fact that some of these men are not even in college.
3. To go along with #1, these men use chants, steps, histories, handshakes, and other sorority traditions that do not belong to them because they are not members. These traditions are (I think they still are) considered sacred to the organizations and should not be used by non-members. Even if some members of the sorority accept these guys as equals, they still are not members.
4. It's thought that the fellas "join" the sororities because they cannot join one a fraternity because of anti-gay bias. I know plenty of gay men that are members of fraternities. And in addition, there are fraternities for Black and Gay men. One such example is Delta Phi Upsilon. This fraternity was formed in 1985 at Florida State University "by five college men whose particular purpose was to cultivate and encourage high scholastic and ethical standards among gay men of color." Why pretend to be in a sorority when you can be a part of an organization formed especially for you?
These are my reasons. Let me also say that I am not hating on anyone. I just don't agree with the practices of these "sorority members." Mashaun says "I respect his opinion over the issue that it being disrespectful and wrong, however I cannot co-sign on that. Why? Well because they have the right to do and be who they are as long as it is not hurting anyone else. From what I can tell, they just want to be able to be who they are without anyone bothering them, unfortunately by them being who they are they bring a lot more attention to themselves. So what?" The fact here is that this is not them being WHO they are, but WHAT they are trying to be. These men would still be WHO they are even if they did not attempt to emulate the ladies in the sororities. But WHAT they will never be is a member of a sorority.
Now, most of you may read his blog entry and not get out of it what I got out of it. That's fine, but now that I have said what I have to say, I can let it go.
posted by That Dude Right There at
10/26/2005 12:32:00 PM
9 Comments:
first of all damn good post! Overall we agree on most of your points but I bring a completely different perspective to the page as a member of a fraternity AND a member of an auxiliary organization MIAKA. I pledged MIAKA first and was pledged (very hard might I add) by members of the sorority. The MAJORITY of the brothers on my line and in my chapter are heterosexual. I'll spare u the details but I thought u should know that these types of auxilary organizations exist although I doubt very seriously the guys you and Mashaun are referring to are a part of this. Also there is nothing wrong with being commited to your point of view. The key is to make sure u arent commited to being right & u all good :)
ok, before i say anything i will say this ... LOL!
i thought u said u lost this post?!
LOL!!
i am glad you had the chance to get it all off of your chest and hopefully we can move on from this topic, still be friends and agree to disagree!
you are entitled to your opinion, just like i am and as long as no one from the sorotities/fraternities are bothered by the actions of my homosexual brothers/sisters then why should i?
but anyway, before i end up rehashing this issue and conversation, i will leave it alone and move on in the same fashion that i hope you do!
love ya much! smooches!
Yes we can all agree to disagree at times. Now you all go kiss and make up...*LOL*.
As for my take, as usual, I see points from both sides. I'd elaborate but my black ass needs to get to work.
Hey, you know I am a sorority girl...and I would be extremely upset to see anyone... male or female perpetrating or pretending to be a part of my organization. However, what I will say is that the fact that they are allowed to do so is what makes America the great place that it is...
and you definately have a right to an opinion.
Well actually they are not called male sororities. They are called more like their sweethearts. When I was in college I wanted to pledge one of the most prestigous fraternities in my eyes but I never did. I hung out with the SGRHOs and I was one of the Debos and also the Deltas and I was a Delta Gent. They are no different than the fraternities sweethearts. At my college we had more Alpha-sweets than memebers.
Boo to them!!! Dudes shouldn't be sweating sororities like that. I am with you. They haven't gone through anything those women have. Them being sensitive don't make it okay.
I happen to think it is whack to pledge a sorority auxiliary like MIAKA or Delta Gent. Just whack!
i'm behind you 100%
well at my school we have 5 of the divine nine and i am sometimes always seen with the deltas (realest chicks on the yard) and as of me bein with them i am considered a groupie.where ever u go people do talk entirely too much and have nothing better to do witht there time i would be honored to be a delta gent but fact of the matter i am just cool with them any problems.
To Bobby Brown,
That's cool and all. I mean Kappa Sweethearts and Alpha Angels are pledged by previos Sweethearts and Angels and by Kappas and Alphas themselves. In general, these girls do not throw up the torch or the yo (the organizations' symbols) or do their calls. They have an understanding and are given rules and regulations as to what is and is not okay.
This MIAKA business has gone too far in that I've been oggled at by member of MIAKA who refer to me as soror and said that they weren't going to speak because I didn't look like I was about all that. Well, guess what?!?!? I wasn't . . . It wasn't the time or the place for Greek life on any level, real or fake. None of this was said to me, though. Just the fact that MANY of them think they ARE entitled to be a, be greeted like a, called a soror and wear letters is BEYOND ME!
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